Transcript
Scott Stars
Hello, and welcome to On Point, a podcast by Oak Street Funding where we sit down with industry leaders to hear their stories and share their insights. I'm your host today, Scott Stars, VP of strategic markets at Oak Street Funding. Today I'm joined by Brian Kutayiah, owner and founder of Clearview Insurance. Brian, thanks for joining us today and welcome.
Brian Kutayiah
Thanks for having me, Scott.
Scott Stars
Yeah. Tell me a little bit about yourself and your path to where you are today.
Brian Kutayiah
Oh, man. Do you have time?
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
Clearview started about three- and- a- half years ago. Prior to this, I was a captive All State agent, and I had great time there. Started in 2014. I really ended up there by accident. I had a bunch of these tax offices, worked four months out of the year. I got married and my wife said, "Are you really not going to do anything after April?" I was like, "Well, yeah. I'll go to the gym, hang out with the boys." I was like, " All right, I should probably find something else to do with this free time that I have." I started looking at P& C insurance. Had no idea that it was a viable business opportunity. I was doing some research, just looking at it. I tried to go independent. I called Progressive, Travelers, and they said, "Do you have a book?" I said, " No." They said, "Well, come back to us when you have a book." How am I supposed to do that? Some recruiter from All State reached out and said, "Hey, we think you'd be a great fit at All State." I said, "Sounds good to me." Went in, see a presentation, and I was blown away by the business opportunity. Just insurance, P&C insurance as a whole, the idea of building recurring revenue, all of that, was exciting. I started at the All State agency. I had a great time. I started from scratch, built up to about 10 million. In 2020, I had my best year ever. Right after that, companies started making these comps changes. It took me about three weeks to understand what I was getting paid. In the back of my head I was just thinking to myself, "This is probably only going to get worse. It might be the right time to go." I decided to sell the All State and started Clearview Insurance.
Scott Stars
Tell me a little bit about your company. As a founder, why did you decide to start Clearview Insurance? To build upon that, what was your long-term vision originally?
Brian Kutayiah
I decided to start Clearview because, one, I wanted to be in control of my own destiny. Two, I thought there was a bigger opportunity. At the time, I was talking to John Hewitt, who had founded Jackson Hewitt Liberty Tax. I was a Liberty Tax franchisee in the tax business. John said, "Hey, Brian, you've done a great job adding insurance to your tax practice. Why don't you come teach our franchisees to do the same?" I was like, "Oh, that's a great idea." Maybe I'll franchise Clearview and go and work with these tax franchisees and show them how to add insurance to their current books of business. That's really where the idea started. We started up Clearview with the intention of being a franchise and distribute that way. We looked at the other franchises in the space and other market access companies. Listen, everyone's a different flavor of ice cream.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
We just felt like, okay, we wanted to do something that we would buy.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
That's where the idea behind starting Clearview really came from.
Scott Stars
To think, to build upon what you're saying, in three-and-a-half years, four years - scratch independent to just over 50 million in premium - That's an achievement right there. But you talk about the different flavors of ice cream, everybody has their own preference. How do you differentiate yourself in the marketplace?
Brian Kutayiah
That's a tough one. It really depends on what you're looking for.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
For us, I've built a scratch captive book, now we've built a scratch independent book. We've built a really good foundation. Then we have these franchisees under us that are looking to do the same. I think the things that differentiates us is we have the experience and we're willing to share that experience.
Scott Stars
Right.
Brian Kutayiah
That attracts the right type of person because we've solved a lot of problems. We've spent a lot of money to solve these problems. We've made these mistakes and now you don't have to make those mistakes. If you're looking for a business in a box, especially within insurance, and you want to build and scale something, then we're happy to work with you.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
If you're like, "Hey, maybe I don't want to build a business, I might want to do one or two policies here and there," well, we're not the right people to work with.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
We're wanting to work with folks that are going to put their money where their mouth is. They're going to come to me and say, "Hey, I want a $10 million book, help me get there," and we have the roadmap to help you get there. Those are the kind of people we're looking for.
Scott Stars
Yeah. As we get further in the conversation, thinking about our relationship.
Brian Kutayiah
Yeah.
Scott Stars
I know we met back at PIA New York and New Jersey.
Brian Kutayiah
Yeah.
Scott Stars
I was there as a vendor, you were there as an attendee. Talking about growth initiatives, and things of that nature. Take us through your growth journey. How did you decide you wanted to use capital and work with Oak Street Funding?
Brian Kutayiah
Yeah. I remember meeting you that day. I walked by your booth and you're like, "Oh, what are you guys up to?" We're like, "Ah, we just started this scratch agency. We're going to expand nationwide, and we're going to do this and do that." And you laughed at me.
Scott Stars
I hear it every day.
Brian Kutayiah
Yeah, you definitely said, "Oh, yeah, I hear that every day. We'll see."
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
I remember that was funny. I was like, "Yeah, I'll show you, Scott. Watch this."
Scott Stars
I'm on a vision board somewhere, my face.
Brian Kutayiah
Yeah, exactly.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
For us, we started the organic growth in mid-2021 .When we started, it was crazy. I never even thought about an acquisition because we were just writing so much new business. What's the point? What's the need?
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
We grew a ton that first year, just organically. In 2022, it all came to a halt. Every carrier basically said, "Well, we don't really want to write business. We want to take a step back, we want to pause." The issue was we had one year in. It's not like we had a book that we've been building for 20 years.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
I got four kids to feed, so I got to find a way to keep growing. That's where the idea of acquisitions came about. I think I called you and I said, "Hey, we're going to start looking to acquire some books in other states outside of New York." New York was locked down.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
If any of you write business in New York, you know exactly what I'm talking about. We wanted to look at states that were still open for business that we can grow in and that's where we started looking for acquisitions. We ended up buying a book in Georgia, in Texas, Illinois, and some of these other states where we can continue to write new business and grow. That's where acquisitions, for us, came out of a necessity.
Scott Stars
All right, Brian. It's great, you've used some debt to help you get to where you are today through those acquisitions. I know we worked with you on four acquisitions and two different transactions. What's next for your business? Where do you see yourself over the next, let's say five years?
Brian Kutayiah
Now I think we're at the point where we've settled in with these acquisitions. Things are going well with them, they're growing. But now we want to go back to focus more on that organic growth.
Scott Stars
Right.
Brian Kutayiah
We've built a really good foundation and we've got the right people in the right places. We have all of these agents that are coming to us looking to acquire a franchise, to work with us to grow and scale that way. That's going to be a lot of our focus over the next several years, is how do we take these captive agents that are saying, "Hey, I don't know what I'm getting paid, I can't figure it out. I want access, I want to make more money, I have a family to feed." That's going to be a lot of my time and energy, is working with these agents that are coming onboard with us and helping them grow and scale their business to something that they really love and they enjoy.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
That's what's we're going to be doing. Outside of that, I think another differentiator for us, we're probably one of the only franchises out there that encourages our franchisees to acquire.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
From the time they come in with us, we have a game plan. Okay, what are we going to write? How are we going to grow? Where's our revenue going to be?
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
We teach them how to manage their P&L properly, how to keep equity in their business. Ultimately, that's for them to be set up to be able to acquire a book. Now if they're... We don't want to own everything.
Scott Stars
Right.
Brian Kutayiah
It makes no sense. I can't manage a book in, I don't know, New Mexico when I live in New York. I'm not going to do a great job doing that.
Scott Stars
Right.
Brian Kutayiah
But can I find a local franchisee with the talent and the skills to do it? Absolutely.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
When we bring our folks in, we make sure that they come in with the intention to also grow by acquisition. Let's see what you can write, let's build a scratch book. Awesome, you've done a great job. We know you can manage an acquisition.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
We've got Oak Street in place, we've got our brokers that work with us, we have deals coming to us all the time. It's just a matter of pairing up the right franchisee with the right deal.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
That's what we're going to be focusing on.
Scott Stars
Yeah. That's a good segue, as we talk about the next five years and what your plans are. Looking back a little bit, what's something you would have done different?
Brian Kutayiah
I don't know. Everyone says hindsight is 20/20.
Scott Stars
Sure.
Brian Kutayiah
I don't want to live life thinking of what could have been different. We're here now.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
We have control over today and the decisions that we make tomorrow.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
I don't know if I would say I would do anything different.
Scott Stars
Well, let's rephrase it. Let's say somebody getting into the industry or newer to the industry-
Brian Kutayiah
Okay.
Scott Stars
What would you say to them, here's the best way to be successful early in your career?
Brian Kutayiah
How to be successful early in your career?
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
Be intentional about everything that you do.
Scott Stars
Sure.
Brian Kutayiah
What I find what most insurance agencies, they start off as a single producer and that producer never leaves the producer role.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
I own the book, I own the business, but yet you still do every single thing in the business. My advice would be figure out how to run a business, not just being a producer. Most books that we've looked at are just that single producer, with maybe a handful of staff, but they live and breathe in the business and they can't even take a vacation. That's not a business, that's just a job.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
I think you ought to think about how do I set this up as an actual business? It means you might make less money to start, which should be okay, but you're building an actual business. The business should really be able to run without you.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
You always hear people say this all the time. "Work on your business, not in your business."
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
Well, what does that mean? It means that you ought to start doing these things from the time you start, because when you're deep in the weeds, oh, it's really hard to get out.
Scott Stars
Yeah. When's the last time Brian has actually bound a policy?
Brian Kutayiah
I don't know. It's been years. I do talk to customers, I take leads. Yes, I do all of that, I still love it, I enjoy it.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
I don't do it as much as I want to. But yeah, I can't remember the last time I bound an actual policy.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
Yeah.
Scott Stars
But you're talking to the carrier reps.
Brian Kutayiah
Yeah.
Scott Stars
And you're doing everything-
Brian Kutayiah
Yeah, my job is completely different now. My job is about maintaining that relationship, opening up new relationships, opening up new markets, doing things like that. I have folks that are running quotes, and managing P& Ls, and all of that good stuff.
Scott Stars
Yeah, I love it. All right, Brian, talking about our relationship a little further, what made you decide to use Oak Street as your finance partner?
Brian Kutayiah
Honestly, it's the relationship.
Scott Stars
Sure.
Brian Kutayiah
You and I met, and I think I called you five or six times before we actually did a deal, talking over other deals. You took the time to run a little valuation with me, why is this good, why is this bad, which was really nice. I've talked to other banks and everyone was like, "Okay, send me the numbers."
Scott Stars
Sure.
Brian Kutayiah
"Let me take a look at it. I'll get back to you," blah, blah, blah. For me, relationship is huge. We're in insurance, we're in a relationship-driven business. It's all about that for us, at the end of the day, to make sure we always have a good working relationship. I like the fact that you take my calls, walk me through stuff.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
That's important. That's why we're here.
Scott Stars
Yeah. That's why we're here now, but since forming our relationship, is there anything that sticks out that you can think of Oak Street going above-and-beyond to assist in that?
Brian Kutayiah
Yeah. Listen, you guys have been great and you're not paying me to say that.
Scott Stars
I'm not, no. Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
I think not just you, but the closing team, the underwriters, everyone that we've dealt with so far has been pleasant and really easy to work with. That's super important to us. We have a question, I can't reach you, I can reach somebody else.
Scott Stars
Yeah, yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
Right.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
Yeah. Just that service that you guys provide, that's a big deal.
Scott Stars
Yeah.
Brian Kutayiah
Yeah.
Scott Stars
I would say the question is would you work with Oak Street Funding again? If so, why? With that being said, we're always working together, but anything there you can elaborate on?
Brian Kutayiah
Would I work with Oak Street again if I had to do this all over? Yeah, absolutely.
Scott Stars
Perfect.
Brian Kutayiah
Absolutely. For sure, hands down. Yeah.
Scott Stars
Well, Brian, thank you for being here and sharing your story. It's been a pleasure. Thank you all for listening to On Point, a podcast by Oak Street Funding. I'm Scott Stars. Tune in next time wherever you listen to podcasts as we get On Point. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram @onpoint.with.osf. Subscribe and leave us a review.
